RealGM reports Jazz interested in Trading for John Collins

[Eddie Zero]

I think we’re giving up too much firepower in that deal. One or the other maybe, not both. Rather move Sexton and filler, I.e., Gay, NAW, Azubuike, Bolmaro (whatever they want out of that group) and like you say, a single first.

Definitely rather wait till the 15th of December and deal Sexton ahead of Clarkson or Beasley.

Yeah but no way ATL wants Sexton coming off injury not looking like his old self yet on that deal. the other 2 might be enough fire power for them to agree since their deals are shorter and they get out of paying Collins. I really think it is no secret the ATL front office has been shopping him for awhile now. If anyone can get it done Danny can. I however don't want Collins on this roster at all, I think without a freak playmaker like Trae or even Dejounte on the Jazz , Collins is just Vander 2.0.

 

[HermanG]

That is your opinion. What we are doing is working for the team and for Lauri. Maybe more touches leads to worse efficiency. All I know i ls the way he is being used is making him an all star and making our team first in the West with the toughest schedule in the league.
I'm cool with that.

I dont dispute this. And you may be 100% correct. Im just so hyped about him. I want MOOOOORE!

But surely you cant say those touch numbers look good?

 

[fishonjazz]

I dont dispute this. And you may be 100% correct. Im just so hyped about him. I want MOOOOORE!

But surely you cant say those touch numbers look good?

Ya fwiw in the gamethread last night someone posted that lauri should touch the ball every possession and i quoted the post and responded with “this”
So i get it and even feel the same as you guys to a point. Especially as im watching the game.

But when i step back and look at the bigger picture I see that the picture of this team is a picasso.

Forcing the ball to lauri might make his efficiency go down, make more losses, make us easier to defend (defense could key way more on one guy), and might take the other players out of their rythm and hurt their game.

Now on the other hand i think we are undefeated when lauri scores over 20 points per game so maybe more touches would only make us better.

I dont know, thanks for the civil debate though and i do respect your opinion and agree with a lot of it.


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[HermanG]

Ya fwiw in the gamethread last night someone posted that lauri should touch the ball every possession and i quoted the post and responded with “this”
So i get it and even feel the same as you guys to a point. Especially as im watching the game.

But when i step back and look at the bigger picture I see that the picture of this team is a picasso.

Forcing the ball to lauri might make his efficiency go down, make more losses, make us easier to defend (defense could key way more on one guy), and might take the other players out of their rythm and hurt their game.

Now on the other hand i think we are undefeated when lauri scores over 20 points per game so maybe more touches would only make us better.

I dont know, thanks for the civil debate though and i do respect your opinion and agree with a lot of it.


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Likewise to the last point.

Its just one of those situations where you get so exited over a guy you want him to take every shot. Its not sensible, its a 5 yo "I just want" thing..

Its likely not wise, its likely gonna drop his efficiency.. but I'm just dying to see him post a 50 point game as I know he has that in him.

After he does that, we can go back to the "equal opportunity" system.

 

[Scape Goat]

We are feeding lauri just fine. He has been awesome and is having his best year of his career, the jazz are first in the west, and by reading lauris tweet he is extremely happy and loving how much he is being fed.

Its ALL good.


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Lauri has to shoot 60-70% every game to get 20 points on 10 shots. That is not possible each night.

Without Conley…

But great win last night!

 

[HermanG]

Lauri has to shoot 60-70% every game to get 20 points on 10 shots. That is not possible each night.

Without Conley…

But great win last night!

He is averaging 15+. The fact it dropped from 17 in October to 13.8 in this month has more to do with him being the focal point of the defense.

I want him to take every shot, but I dont want to force balls his way. If Beasley and Clarkson stay on their current tear, they start drawing more double teams which spaces the field for Lauri.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Collins? No thanks. He wants more touches and shots, yet the Hawks are doing just fine this season without featuring him.

I don't like his attitude. You can't be a malcontent when your team is winning.

 

[sip]

He NEEDS 20 shots per game in order for what exactly to occur? I like being in first place and having Lauri be an all star.
He is getting more shots than ever before. He is happy. I'm happy.
Maybe more shots brings worse efficiency and more losses.
I'm good with what we are doing. Lauri is good with it. Coach is. We are in first place with the toughest schedule in the league. I'm not going to complain.

It is frustrating to always have to educate some of you. The jazz are 10-0 when Lauri scores over 20 points. The jazz are 9-1 when Lauri takes 15 or more shots. The jazz are 3 and 5 when Lauri takes under 14 shots a game. The bottom line is that the jazz are a much better team when Lauri is aggressive and more of a focal point.

 

[hgb]

I'm not very keen on Collins, but KO + Gay + <something, like e.g. Bolmaro> works. They can get a couple of 2nd rounders.

 

[sip]

He is averaging 15+. The fact it dropped from 17 in October to 13.8 in this month has more to do with him being the focal point of the defense.

I want him to take every shot, but I dont want to force balls his way. If Beasley and Clarkson stay on their current tear, they start drawing more double teams which spaces the field for Lauri.

Every thing should flow through Lauri whether it is post ups or the pick and roll. We want him having to deal with as much attention as possible because that is how he will learn and get better. There is only one priority this year and that is trying to change Lauri's mindset from a passive player to a star players mindset.

 

[HermanG]

Every thing should flow through Lauri whether it is post ups or the pick and roll. We want him having to deal with as much attention as possible because that is how he will learn and get better. There is only one priority this year and that is trying to change Lauri's mindset from a passive player to a star players mindset.

I would agree with you on the future development aspect. But I would argue that our offense is based less on called plays than any other NBA offense sans Mavs whose offensive scheme is "give Luka the ball and try to make yourself useful".

I saw a scout write that our offense is based on a variation of the Grinnell system. The tenets of that system (based on Wikipedia) are:

1. The first possible shot is the best possible shot, where three-point field goal attempts are preferred over shorter shots.
2. Shoot as many three-pointers as possible.
3. In terms of defense, giving up an uncontested layup is better than a shot clock violation.
4. Always double team the person with the ball.
5. Every player but the shooter goes for the offensive rebound.
6. Offensive rebounds should be sent back for another three-point attempt, not a shorter putback for two points.

And that offense got us where we are. The positive is we develop a lot of guys by putting them on different situations and spreading the touches around. The negative is we dont run plays, so no one gets to be a focal point.

Im starving for more touches to Lauri as much as you (as you may have noticed), and I think Hardy will implement more called plays once the season goes along.

Remember this team was just put together and the HC is new, so the focus has been on the system. They will add more wrinkles to it I'm sure.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Yeah but no way ATL wants Sexton coming off injury not looking like his old self yet on that deal. the other 2 might be enough fire power for them to agree since their deals are shorter and they get out of paying Collins. I really think it is no secret the ATL front office has been shopping him for awhile now. If anyone can get it done Danny can. I however don't want Collins on this roster at all, I think without a freak playmaker like Trae or even Dejounte on the Jazz , Collins is just Vander 2.0.

Well there are a number of red flags for Collins and probably why Atlanta is having so much trouble moving him. And the contract is excessive for a guy that is so erratic. That sounds a hell of a lot like Sexton and his contract actually. Like you say, phones are not ringing off the hook for this guy and they do want to get off him, his ego and his contract.

Like you, I don’t want to overpay or jeopardize our chemistry for this wildcard. Sexton or possibly old man Conley is the best I could do, otherwise I walk away and pursue another dawg in Isaac or maybe Crowder.

Remember that Atlanta is without the services of their microwave 6th man, Lou Williams this season and Sexton could fill that role for them. (We need to continue to showcase him in that capacity.) He’s redundant for us in that capacity as we already have Beasley who is far more reliable. However, nobody is quicker or more athletic than Sexton. Obviously beyond the point of relapse concerns. Reminds me of a young and semi-wild Clarkson, and look how far he’s come.

 

[slc]

1. In terms of defense, giving up an uncontested layup is better than a shot clock violation.

Why is an uncontested layup better than a shot clock violation?

 

[HermanG]

Why is an uncontested layup better than a shot clock violation?

I dont know for sure, but it has something to do with maximizing possessions within a game.

E: I just copied that from Wikipedia.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Right now I’m only doing no brainer deals. Like when the Kings got Heurter for a pick. Guys are just continuing to surprise… Lauri is a revelation, Malik has been on an absolute heater and I want to see it continue, JC learned to balance scoring and passing while playing okayish defense, Kessler has shown some promise, THT has shown major improvement imo, Hardy seems to press most of the right buttons…

Collins is intriguing but it’s a pass for me unless it’s highway robbery. Depending on what happens with Mike I am not seeing a whole lot of obvious trades out there.

 

[The Thriller]

Lol. Why?

How does he improve this team now or for the future?

 

[homeytennis]

I dont know for sure, but it has something to do with maximizing possessions within a game.

E: I just copied that from Wikipedia.

It's lost opportunity cost. With the shot clock violation you are losing the chance for a three point shot, three point play or a two point shot. Stats wise it works out.

 

[hgb]

Collins for Collin. Gotta work, now? We add Rudy for salary, they get some weirdly protected 1st.

 

[KqWIN]

Right now I’m only doing no brainer deals. Like when the Kings got Heurter for a pick. Guys are just continuing to surprise… Lauri is a revelation, Malik has been on an absolute heater and I want to see it continue, JC learned to balance scoring and passing while playing okayish defense, Kessler has shown some promise, THT has shown major improvement imo, Hardy seems to press most of the right buttons…

Collins is intriguing but it’s a pass for me unless it’s highway robbery. Depending on what happens with Mike I am not seeing a whole lot of obvious trades out there.

IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.

Great attributes?

Collins is a guy who ended up in a great situation (got paid, starts on a winning team) but still somehow managed to become unhappy. That's a gigantic red flag. He thinks it's all about him and his touches.

Many guys on this Utah team play with legit chips on their shoulders. Collins isn't like that. His team handed him the bag before he'd proven anything, and he's never even been challenged at Atlanta.