How Much $$$ Should Jazz Throw at Austin Reaves?

[KqWIN]

Here’s the argument for maxing Reaves:

The Jazz are positioned to be very cap lean due to their abundance rookie-scale players. There will also likely be a cap spike in a couple of years.

It’s a wild swing but the Jazz are positioned to take it if they wanna get wild.

Give Reaves a short max. Lot's of prophecy gets lost in translation, this is the true Lakers down payment theory coming to fruition.

On a serious note, it's really not a bad idea for the Jazz. There's a good chance our cap space ends up like OKC's this year, unused. If we can use it to get a decent player like Reeves it would be a great use.

 

[HermanG]

It is just weird to me that the CBA wouldn’t allow a free agent an actual max contract because they’re an Early Bird but someone is going to have to cite the notion.

I did cite HoopsHype article about the Gilbert Arenas Rule. See below:

From HoopsHype:
The Arenas provision limits the first-year salary that rival suitors can offer restricted free agents who have only been in the league for one or two years. The starting salary for an offer sheet can’t exceed the amount of the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which allows the player’s original team to use either the mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception to match it. Otherwise, a team without the necessary cap space would be powerless to keep its player, like the Warriors were with Arenas.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I did cite HoopsHype article about the Gilbert Arenas Rule. See below:

I guess I’m not being clear.

Earlier in the thread, I believe it was @hgb that said that the third and fourth years are capped at the max, but if the first two years are locked into essentially the MLE, then that is not an actual max contract.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't know the exact numbers, but I read that LAL can give him ~13M/year. A poison pill contract can due to the Gilbert Arenas provision go way above that, but not starting year one, and somewhere else I read the max anyone can give is ~4/98.
By my (probably faulty) calculations, that would end up being
23/24: 13.xM
24/25: 13.yM (+5% of year one)
25/26: 36M
26/27: 36M

Would take a little less than 25M in cap space to give the offer sheet. Not sure if he would count against the cap with 24M/year or those above numbers.

36M per is a bit hefty for Reaves...

For the non-incumbent team, the cap hits are flat, so in the circumstance above, the cap hits to the Jazz would be $24.5 million every year. However, this wouldn’t be a real max contract and it is hard for me to believe that the CBA would disallow a player access to an actual max contract just because they are an Early Bird.

How an actual max contract would hit for an Early Bird would be ~MLE, ~MLE, ~$60m, ~60m, for the incumbent (Lakers). For the pursuing team it would be a flat ~$37m annually. Assuming that this is a thing, of course.

@HermanG this is the post that I am referring to.

 

[HermanG]

I guess I’m not being clear.

Earlier in the thread, I believe it was @hgb that said that the third and fourth years are capped at the max, but if the first two years are locked into essentially the MLE, then that is not an actual max contract.

Oh I read you wrong there. CBA is such a freaking science of its own that they need to start teaching it in Harvard.

 

[hgb]

For the non-incumbent team, the cap hits are flat, so in the circumstance above, the cap hits to the Jazz would be $24.5 million every year. However, this wouldn’t be a real max contract and it is hard for me to believe that the CBA would disallow a player access to an actual max contract just because they are an Early Bird.

How an actual max contract would hit for an Early Bird would be ~MLE, ~MLE, ~$60m, ~60m, for the incumbent (Lakers). For the pursuing team it would be a flat ~$37m annually.

@HermanG this is the post that I am referring to.

I'm not sure where they pull those numbers, but I read Somewhere™ that the max other teams could offer would be ~4/98. But when I try to read about it now, I don't see why that limit would be there. He could end up the highest paid player in the league (ever!) in two years time, actually.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'm not sure where they pull those numbers, but I read Somewhere™ that the max other teams could offer would be ~4/98. But when I try to read about it now, I don't see why that limit would be there. He could end up the highest paid player in the league (ever!) in two years time, actually.

The argument for that would be that a max salary for a given season is an absolute concept, rather than a max salary over the life of the contract (with massive ballooning amounts as I mentioned above).

I can see how they got there, but it’s a massive oversight and incredibly unfair and arbitrary for the Early Bird free agent to be robbed of tens of millions because of the poor design of the CBA.

 

[NUMBERICA]

According to Hoops Rumors, the max for Reaves would be in-line with the $98m/4 years figure already mentioned. Not sure I trust it, but ****en dumb if true.

If Rivers keeps this up then someone needs to poison the **** out of that pill for the Lakers or snag him and I want it to be the Jazz.

The Lakers don’t need nor do they deserve such good luck as to get a player like Reaves for essentially the MLE (which is the most they can offer, to pay more they have to match another team’s offer sheet).

 

[Coach Ellis]

Here’s the argument for maxing Reaves:

The Jazz are positioned to be very cap lean due to their abundance rookie-scale players. There will also likely be a cap spike in a couple of years.

It’s a wild swing but the Jazz are positioned to take it if they wanna get wild.

The big question is if we have to structure the contract the same way the Lakers would have to match it. It sounds like we would.

How much cap space are we willing to devote to him in the ‘26 & ‘27 seasons? I’m assuming that the Lakers would match anything reasonable.

For the non-incumbent team, the cap hits are flat, so in the circumstance above, the cap hits to the Jazz would be $24.5 million every year. However, this wouldn’t be a real max contract and it is hard for me to believe that the CBA would disallow a player access to an actual max contract just because they are an Early Bird.

How an actual max contract would hit for an Early Bird would be ~MLE, ~MLE, ~$60m, ~60m, for the incumbent (Lakers). For the pursuing team it would be a flat ~$37m annually. Assuming that this is a thing, of course.

@HermanG this is the post that I am referring to.

if the cap hits are flat, then I’m all for going after him. I just don’t want the Jazz getting stuck paying out less now and more later. I’m totally down with giving him a good contract IF it’s flat. Especially if we end up having to pay Lauri a Super Max down the road. He makes a couple of All NBA teams, and we’re going to have to pony up when it’s time to extend him.

 

[HermanG]

According to Hoops Rumors, the max for Reaves would be in-line with the $98m/4 years figure already mentioned. Not sure I trust it, but ****en dumb if true.

If Rivers keeps this up then someone needs to poison the **** out of that pill for the Lakers or snag him and I want it to be the Jazz.

The Lakers don’t need nor do they deserve such good luck as to get a player like Reaves for essentially the MLE (which is the most they can offer, to pay more they have to match another team’s offer sheet).

That Arenas rule is just one more way for big market teams to hold on to their own. Remember that its specifically designed for over the cap situations.

The non-Competition committee has made the salary cap pointless for those who are fine by staying over the cap year after year by setting 17 different exceptions and appendices that reduce true free agency situations to half.

Some small market owners dont care because the luxury tax system means they make personal monetary profit simply from TV + tax.

 

[hgb]

The big question is if we have to structure the contract the same way the Lakers would have to match it. It sounds like we would.

The way I read the CBA FAQ, I think we will have a cap hit of <total amount>/4 each season. For LAL it would be two cheap years and two expensive years. So we offer 4/80, if they match, they pay 13+13+27+27, while if they don't, we pay 20+20+20+20.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The way I read the CBA FAQ, I think we will have a cap hit of <total amount>/4 each season. For LAL it would be two cheap years and two expensive years. So we offer 4/80, if they match, they pay 13+13+27+27, while if they don't, we pay 20+20+20+20.

That's my understanding of the structure as well, as explained both by Spotrac and Hoops Rumors.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Since the ASB Reaves is averaging an absurd 2 points per shot. 8.8 shot attempts per game for 17.6 ppg.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Since the ASB Reaves is averaging an absurd 2 points per shot. 8.8 shot attempts per game for 17.6 ppg.

Jazz need to max him (at least/certainly if the max in this case is $98/4). Dude is insanely good and if this play is for real moves the Jazz up a tier on his own. He's playing at the crossroads of raw production and winning basketball (efficiency, intangibles, creates for and finds others with ease, strong advanced stats) which is almost as rare as a superstar.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Jazz need to max him (at least/certainly if the max in this case is $98/4). Dude is insanely good and if this play is for real moves the Jazz up a tier on his own. He's playing at the crossroads of raw production and winning basketball (efficiency, intangibles, creates for and finds others with ease, strong advanced stats) which is almost as rare as a superstar.

Linsanity part II.

 

[homeytennis]

The Jazz are going to throw a boatload of money at an undrafted smallish player who appears to have the same potential as Justin James? OK then.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Jazz are going to throw a boatload of money at an undrafted smallish player who appears to have the same potential as Justin James? OK then.

6'5.5 in shoes w/ a 6'6 wingspan and 8'5 standing reach. Not great size, but not small.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Linsanity part II.

Maybe. He'll start getting scouted and we'll see if he holds up (Lin didn't).

Speaking of scouting, the Jazz probably benefit a lot from not being in anyone's crosshairs for most of the year. Nobody had data on the Jazz to start the year which helps account for the hot start, and when they trot out the G-League All-Stars squad the same thing happens to some degree.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe. He'll start getting scouted and we'll see if he holds up (Lin didn't).

Lin also came out of nowhere. Plenty of people had Reaves pegged as a late first or early 2nd round talent in his draft.

 

[homeytennis]

6'5.5 in shoes w/ a 6'6 wingspan and 8'5 standing reach. Not great size, but not small.

Justin James is 6'7" and had a similar NBA career game. I'm dubious about Mr. Reaves. He reminds me a little of Ian Clark and where is he now?