CHINA vs the NBA.

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by yamers, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. aussietin

    aussietin Well-Known Member

    565
    69
    78
    Feb 19, 2013
    if china just comes and just abolishes everything in hong kong in 2047, i cant say much, but right now, theyve agreed to a mini-constitution, and hong kong should have a strong degree of autonomy until 2047.

    also why im planning to move away from hong kong. its home, but im not sure itll be livable here past 2047.
     
    colton, NUMBERICA and AlaskanAssassin like this.
  2. Douchebag K

    Douchebag K Well-Known Member

    9,800
    3,436
    263
    Nov 12, 2014
    And we know the citizens of their country are so by and large happy little munchkins coz they’re so free to tell us so or free to express otherwise ????
     
    NUMBERICA likes this.
  3. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

    1,321
    232
    113
    May 27, 2010
    So do I. I also believe the primary government has a right to try and prevent secession. If 51% of the people in Alaska voted to secede, I would understand the rest of the country resisting it (Natural resources, geographic military importance, etc.).

    Hong Kong was part of a unified China that started in 221 BC. The only interruption was when the British forcefully took Hong Kong in 1841 and the region was ceded in 1842. From the perspective of mainland China, HK was forcefully taken and the only reason they have differing values or culture is due to military force from a Western enemy (at the time).
    I'm actually surprised it has taken this long for this type of revolt to happen between HK and the mainland, since HK was returned to Chinese rule from the British. How can you have a "unified" county if factions of the country operate under a different set of laws? I suppose you can understand Taiwan's reluctance to agree to partial Chinese control.
    I have no problem with Morey's right to say what he wants. I am surprised that he didn't think through what would happen as a result of his comments. To me, it's not a "free speech" issue. He's still subject to a public response or response from his employer. If I make public comments that reflect poorly on my employer or cost them $$, I can be fired. This does not restrict my right to free speech.
     
    JazzGal likes this.
  4. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

    1,321
    232
    113
    May 27, 2010
    Have you ever been to mainland China? Have you asked anyone from mainland China what they think of the government there? The culture there does not value the exact same freedoms we do. I have been there recently and I can tell you first hand that Chinese people take a lot of pride in their government. Again, hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty there in the last 40 or so years. If you are an adult living in China it is likely you are happy with the direction of government purely based on improvement in quality of life, life expectancy, and the fact that you no longer have to work on a farm to survive. You can appreciate and approve of your government, even if you recognize the many flaws.

    The ironic thing is that much of the economic prosperity would never have occurred if it wasn't for Hong Kong's rise. Introducing free markets and free will of the people opens up a world of opportunity.
     
  5. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

    2,162
    672
    163
    May 24, 2014
    Yes. If you approach those riot police in a violent way and refuse to back down after being warned repeatedly.
     
  6. Ellipse

    Ellipse Well-Known Member

    5,231
    1,129
    228
    Jul 18, 2011
    Keep corporations out of politics, PERIOD

    Morey was an idiot to tweet what he did, because it put everyone in the NBA in a difficult spot. It is one thing for a player to take a stand, but it goes to a whole new level for a company rep to get involved in foreign politics. Dumbass should be fired.

    I can't see the Hong Kong protests ending well. Obviously the citizens feel it is worth it and, since it's their country and their lives, it is their choice. I wish them the best.
     
    AlaskanAssassin and jom2003 like this.
  7. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

    22,516
    12,150
    433
    Jun 13, 2014
    Maybe he wanted Tilman to feel what he does when Fertita goes spouting his mouth. Morey wants to be fired and paid to go away.
     
  8. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    14,023
    11,106
    428
    May 27, 2010
    Then I don't think he would have been tucking his tail between his legs.
     
  9. Hekate

    Hekate Well-Known Member

    5,798
    971
    203
    Feb 14, 2012
    Wow. You are a piece of ****.
     
    Gameface and Douchebag K like this.
  10. AlaskanAssassin

    AlaskanAssassin Well-Known Member

    1,321
    232
    113
    May 27, 2010
    Totally agree regarding corporations staying out of politics. However, I think this rule applies to players and other people within the organization (GM's, Owners, Coaches, etc.). I would have to think that the backlash would be even greater if James Harden had texted what Morey did. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, comments like this that cost the organization $$ should result in termination. This is negligence, if not gross negligence, on the part of Morey.
     
  11. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

    2,162
    672
    163
    May 24, 2014
    Have you even watched the videos of those protesters beating up police and unarmed civilians? You should. Riot police don't just go out and shoot people for absolute no reason. You just believe what you want to believe.
     
  12. Hekate

    Hekate Well-Known Member

    5,798
    971
    203
    Feb 14, 2012
    The force the protesters have can't be compared to the police. You don't go around shooting people in the chest if you are covered in armor, have teargas, shields and nightsticks. It's just disproportionate.

    I asked police for directions, if the police blocked the way, after the protests in Turkey were over for the night. They said we could use the road and sent a teargas canister after us. So, yes, Police doesn't always need a reason to flex.
     
  13. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

    2,162
    672
    163
    May 24, 2014
    Yep. That's why I said there are censorships coming from both parties. While it is awfully wrong to portray all protesters as rioters, we should not pretend those violent rioters do not exist. It is those riot police's inherent right to protect themselves when they felt that their lives are in danger. That's why I wouldnt necessarily take too much out of the news of someone getting shot in the chest in Hong Kong. Unless you know the full story.
     
  14. jom2003

    jom2003 Well-Known Member

    2,162
    672
    163
    May 24, 2014
    Armor shields or tear gas may protect you against a few people. But if you are cornered into a tight spot, getting hammered and stepped on by a mob, or being attacked by molotov ****tail, that is a complete different story. Especially when they do have actual live videos to back it up. Again, I'm not saying their story is 100% accurate. I'm just saying that clear evidence suggests not all of the riot police were out there solely for the purpose of flexing their power.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  15. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    11,372
    3,335
    263
    May 26, 2010
    The main thing that started this is the China started a law that they can extradite people from HK to China for criminal charges. The courts are far less fair in China than HK. Courts in China are controlled by the communist party and will follow what they want.

    I havent read through most of this. But this issue of HK and China is far more complex than just HK is fighting for human rights and China is trying to shut them down.

    There are plenty of bad things the Chinese government has done but there are plenty of good things as well. Their system is very different than western culture. But unlike the US they dont really have crime issues and homelessness. 1/2 the country was in poverty and they took care of their own people and got them out of that.

    Just like in the USA a lot of people in China dont like some stuff about their government but they also love a lot of things and have national pride. They realize there are issues. Most people though realize that they are giving up some major rights by being in China but what they get is less worries day to day. There are far far more laws in China and far far less control on your day to day lives. Plus far less concerns about crime. But there is the fear that the government can do whatever to you and you have no say in it. People also care far less about government and politics here. Most people in China dont really care too much about the HK situation and dont have a lot of opinions on it. Obviously they do in HK. Talking to a few people in HK I think it depends on a few things how you feel about it. A lot of people with pretty good jobs that are getting paid well and have a comfortable life are pretty upset about the protest since it is hurting them.

    Personally these protest remind me a bit of the 2% protests in NYC awhile ago. They have a good cause and reasons for what they are doing. But it is really disorganized and they dont have a clear goal or mission with their protests. They are also being disruptive and hurting a lot of their fellow citizens more than anyone else. Its also a lot of younger people that get passionate easily and upset.

    There is also the issue that HK used to be the main port for the area and was financially very prosperous. That is not as true as it was. They have much more competition from other China ports in the area and money is shifting away. This is also causing people to be upset.

    Personally I think China should let HK be their own country. Although that would hurt HK financially a lot since China would not support them and would try to shut them out financially. I dont think HK can compete with the other China cities close by. But I think they should still let them vote and if they want independence let them. They could give an option for people to be relocated to China if they want. But I doubt China does that since they view that as a sign of weakness and want to save face on this.

    I just hope the violence stops and it doesnt escalate.
     
  16. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

    21,708
    5,963
    373
    Jul 14, 2015
    Crime rates are low because of what I assume are bs policies in place like in Japan.
     
  17. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    11,372
    3,335
    263
    May 26, 2010
    I think they are low because there are cameras everywhere, punishments are harsh, and there is less poverty/need to commit crime out of desperation.
     
  18. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

    21,708
    5,963
    373
    Jul 14, 2015
    Japan has ******** policies. They can detain and interrogate someone for up to 23 days. People falsely admit guilt after a while because they break because, well, 23 days is an eternity.

    Many are therefore terrified to do anything.
     
  19. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    11,372
    3,335
    263
    May 26, 2010
    I have issues with some of that. But talking to some I see the benefit. Its nice to hear from women that they feel pretty safe to walk home from a bar by themselves at night. Living without some of those fears is nice. Being on camera and being tracked is the price you pay though. For most people here, they dont mind. They arent doing anything that they dont mind if the cameras see.

    I do like the benefits though. For the most part no one cares what you do unless you are being a complete ****. There are not bar laws. You can drink what you want, you drink when you want, where you want. Its just up to you to take care of yourself. There are no
     
  20. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    11,372
    3,335
    263
    May 26, 2010
    Yep, scaring people out of crime is something they do in China as well. A lot of people here dont like stuff like that but think its worth it that they have very little crime and dont have to be fearful of that type of crime. They realize they are giving up some things for that. But most feel like they arent worried because they are going to be committing crime and the government doesnt really care about what they are doing and can just live their lives without worrying.
     

Share This Page