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CHINA vs the NBA.

Ron Mexico said:
Well, thanks. Dont get me wrong there are many problems here in China and things I dont like but there are lots of great things and positives as well. China has such a rich long history that the USA cant even begin to compare to. There is a lot of national pride here in China, just like in the USA.

Another issue with the Hong Kong is simply the whole situation to begin with of the terrible things England did to China in the war. Many people take the whole situation very personal and people who are taking Hong Kongs side are siding with what England did to China as well.
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Well not only that, British were ruling Hong Kong in a much more oppressive manner. Protesters were actually killed back then. That's why the protesters and rioters in Hong Kong are currently divided amongst themselves, with many of them being angry young students ignorant of what British rules were like back in the days.
 
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
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No need for imagination. It actually happened during the Civil War. Buchanan thought it was unconstitutional to stop the Confederacy from exercising their consitutional power to gain independence. But Lincoln thought otherwise. It was a much more extreme circumstance than the one in Hong Kong actually. Because even if everyone in Hong Kong wants independence(which is no where close from being true), it still won't make up to 1% of the entire Chinese population. And you said it yourself that the majority of people in China are pro-government. So it is really non-negotiable like what that Nets owner said.

But Hong Kong has much more foreign support, unlike Confederacy at the time. That's what makes things tricky. Or else this would have long been resolved. Tons of foreigners and Taiwanese people went there just to help them sustain those protests.
 
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Ron Mexico said:
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
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I think the challenge here is the fact that nobody — on either side — even existed when these things happened. Why is anyone beholden to some arbitrary point in history? How do we even determine that? Rome used to lay claim to the entire Mediterranean. Should that be restored to them because, well, history? So China believes that these people, their culture, their way of life, etc., is theirs because of a history that predates anyone being alive? For better or worse, this is Hong Kong now. The idea that they should have less say in what happens with their country because of some arbitrary point in history seems fairly archaic.

When we look at a people wanting to preserve their way of life — the only thing they’ve known — and weigh that against “well these people think it’s theirs,” I know which side of that argument is more rational.
 
infection said:
I think the challenge here is the fact that nobody — on either side — even existed when these things happened. Why is anyone beholden to some arbitrary point in history? How do we even determine that? Rome used to lay claim to the entire Mediterranean. Should that be restored to them because, well, history? So China believes that these people, their culture, their way of life, etc., is theirs because of a history that predates anyone being alive? For better or worse, this is Hong Kong now. The idea that they should have less say in what happens with their country because of some arbitrary point in history seems fairly archaic.

When we look at a people wanting to preserve their way of life — the only thing they’ve known — and weigh that against “well these people think it’s theirs,” I know which side of that argument is more rational.
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They didnt exist when it happened but many of the things that have happened since people were alive for. and the issue has been on going since and is very alive in people minds. It is also not that old that people dont relate to it. Its not really a comparison to Rome and now. That is a bad comparison. Is the way of life that different? Are they that separate from mainland China?

I dont think that nor do people in China think that. I am pointing out that there is much more to this than that. Also not everyone in HK is a protester or supports the protesters. I am simply pointing out that there is a lot more here than its being simplified as. I agree people should have a say and have their voice heard. Does the vocal minority deserve more of a voice?

Only about 1 in 5 people in HK want independence after 2047. But that number is higher with the younger teens and 20 year olds. But will that change as they get older and more perspective or is it a trend?
 
Ron Mexico said:
Haha, that made me laugh, partially because it can be true.
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I mean, I'm Canadian, so the whole idea of trying to stop someone seceding by force seems alien to me. We've had two referenda in the past 40 years on whether a particular province would leave Canada or not. They can have another one whenever they'd like, though it has (since the last one) been clarified what kind of question ought to be asked on such a referendum. Hell, 25% of people here in Alberta apparently support separation right now.

I guess I'm just not used to the idea of holding a country together by force. I mean, what's the point? That said, as you point out above, fewer people in Hong Kong support independence than in my home province. I would like to point out that in recent experience, both in Canada and elsewhere, independence referenda(Brexit included) tend to increase support for leaving by 5-10% compared to pre-campaign polling. Simply because it's so much easier to campaign for the smashing of the status quo.
 
jom2003 said:
Have you even watched the videos of those protesters beating up police and unarmed civilians? You should. Riot police don't just go out and shoot people for absolute no reason. You just believe what you want to believe.
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Well, according to another forum from an IMHO respected and believable member - the protesters have quite a lot undercover agents from the Mainland who escalate the violence.
My experience - i have been in China once (2009 summer, one week around Shanghai) and Hong Kong twice (2009 and 2016). IMHO it is even for foreigner like me it is not very difficult to recognize who is a mainland chinese and who is local.
 
If that GM had said something praising the protesters in France there would have been no effect on the NBA's ability to show games or grow their market in France, at least not as a result of French government action.

China is different that way...
 
I highly recommend reading clutchfans right now. Never thought I'd say this.


The Rockets blow and we all know. Just submit you dumb clowns as your whole team falls down as we put you in place. It puts a smile on my face.
 
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