Never Trump

[babe]

Except, of course, for the 1st and 8th amendments. Oh, plus the 14th, which isn't part of the Bill of Rights, but is still part of the constitution. And his fans who want to get rid of the 19th.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-unconstitutional-freedom-liberty-khan-214139

you consider politico relevant to truth? It's pure propaganda dressed in every available pseudo-credible urban legend.

Trumps real weakness is big talk. But then he does some stuff, but only if plenty of people are gonna like it. He's learning about the Constitution, and already is the first national politicians to tell the people the truth about it. It does not authorize the Federal government to do everything, it leaves all that to the States. And far from being someone bent on making the Federal government his own little personal game to lord it over everyone, he's talking about nominating Supreme Court justices with a record for respecting the Constitution provisions, like the three separate branches with defined roles that hold the others in check.

So this is what strikes fear into the darkened hearts of people who believe government is supposed to be the solution to everything. He's gonna make the pound sand or work for change on the State level.

 

[gandalfe]

you consider politico relevant to truth? It's pure propaganda dressed in every available pseudo-credible urban legend.

Actually, no, I don't. Well, I mean, they obviously based it on his statements, but it was simply the first link I found that enumerated the things Trump has said he wants to do that are obviously unconstitutional.

Trumps real weakness is big talk. But then he does some stuff, but only if plenty of people are gonna like it. He's learning about the Constitution, and already is the first national politicians to tell the people the truth about it. It does not authorize the Federal government to do everything, it leaves all that to the States. And far from being someone bent on making the Federal government his own little personal game to lord it over everyone, he's talking about nominating Supreme Court justices with a record for respecting the Constitution provisions, like the three separate branches with defined roles that hold the others in check.

Call me crazy, but I would prefer someone who already has the vaguest idea of the what the constitution says before he gets in there. And, as far as not "making the Federal Government his own little personal game," well, his own statements belie that. He wants to loosen the libel laws just to make it easier for him to sue journalists who say mean things about him.

 

[LogGrad98]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what is the big deal with Trump's tax returns? And how does it compare to all the "birther" malarkey? I have friends that are VIOLENTLY opposed to Trump, at least a few who claim his failure to release his tax returns proves he is the anti-christ or something. Just trying to understand this angle because when I ask them what the deal is with it they foam at the mouth and cannot form coherent sentences due to overwhelming anger. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Miggs]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what is the big deal with Trump's tax returns? And how does it compare to all the "birther" malarkey? I have friends that are VIOLENTLY opposed to Trump, at least a few who claim his failure to release his tax returns proves he is the anti-christ or something. Just trying to understand this angle because when I ask them what the deal is with it they foam at the mouth and cannot form coherent sentences due to overwhelming anger. Can someone enlighten me?

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

 

[LogGrad98]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

That is my thought as well, word for word. And you are right, any of us would do the same. In fact I had a couple of years I paid no taxes since my mother was a tax examiner and told me the threshold they had for chasing down unpaid taxes (at the time) was $350, so anything less than that they just ignored because it cost them at least that much to go after the money. I was hoping someone who found this to be a big deal would enlighten me as to why it is a big deal.

 

[str8line]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

Perfect summation of Trump in two words... well done.

 

[♪alt13]

Trump's an epic moron and a disgrace but he has not supposedly paid income taxes in 18 years and ya know what, I'm okay with that. That's the system and he's legally using it to his advantage. Every single one of us would do the same.

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

 

[infection]

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

 

[LogGrad98]

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

A reasonable reason I suppose. I think most all politicians are shady anyway, so I accept a given level of shadiness in our political leaders, since they all accept what amounts to bribe money from special interests and lobbyists and it is just commonly accepted and will really never go away. So I guess it doesn't bother me that much if he won't release his tax returns.

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

I think waiting for the result of an audit is a reasonable reason to wait, looking at it from his point of view. If he released them then they changed after the audit (which they normally do, even if just nominally, and for someone with that level of money it will probably change a lot) then he will be accused of further shadiness when he "changes" his taxes even if it is fully legit due to the audit.


All in all I still don't get the hubbub, but that's ok. I'm still not voting for him.

 

[infection]

A reasonable reason I suppose. I think most all politicians are shady anyway, so I accept a given level of shadiness in our political leaders, since they all accept what amounts to bribe money from special interests and lobbyists and it is just commonly accepted and will really never go away. So I guess it doesn't bother me that much if he won't release his tax returns.



I think waiting for the result of an audit is a reasonable reason to wait, looking at it from his point of view. If he released them then they changed after the audit (which they normally do, even if just nominally, and for someone with that level of money it will probably change a lot) then he will be accused of further shadiness when he "changes" his taxes even if it is fully legit due to the audit.


All in all I still don't get the hubbub, but that's ok. I'm still not voting for him.

Perhaps, but my point is that he set a completed audit as the condition for release essentially puts it in the hands of the IRS who may have some skin in the game. He basically defers to them and gives them the upper hand and some leverage if they have incentive to drag their feet or not.

 

[str8line]

That's not really the issue. We don't know for sure if he has or hasn't paid taxes. The New York Times speculated that he hasn't based on information from one of Trump's lawsuits in the nineties. There is no law stating that a candidate must release their returns but every candidate in the past 40 years be they Dem or Rep has. Voters want to know if you have been doing some shady ****, dealing with shady people, or if you are as generous as you claim to be. Americans are essentially voting for who gets to be king of the world for the next four years. For many people Trump's refusal to be transparent in this regard is a red flag.

Speaking of which, just saw this long article regarding Trumps "philanthropy". The man has no shame.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...alls-short-of-his-words/ar-AAjAzpL?li=BBnbcA1

 

[♪alt13]

They think he's hiding something and not being forthcoming. What's interesting is he's said that as soon as his audit with the IRS is complete he'll release them. The same group that was targeting conservative groups. If the IRS doesn't see anything newsworthy, take your time on that audit. With him making that audit the condition of his release of those forms, you can bet your *** they'd be finishing that audit well before November 8th if it showed something damning.

1) That's a dumb reason not to disclose. These are forms that he (his accountant) filled out and handed over to the IRS. It's not like the IRS doesn't know what is in them.

2) Trump has been asked to supply proof that he is being audited, such as a letter from the IRS stating so. He will not even produce that.