What's new

The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

More fake news:


“Look, the case has been made. Almost everything in the impeachment hearings this week fleshed out and backed up the charge that President Trump muscled Ukraine for political gain. The pending question is what precisely the House and its Democratic majority will decide to include in the articles of impeachment, what statutes or standards they will assert the president violated.”


Oh, nvm. It’s Peggy Noonan, conservative and highly respected author, Reagan advisor and speechwriter.

how have the never trumpers converted her? She seems so sensible, logical, intelligent and unbiased. It is almost like there is some compelling underlying truth that moves her to this conclusion.
That's why the whole tactic of labeling people as "Never Trumpers" and then discounting what they have to say, is so laughable to me. This may come as a shock to the Trump defenders, but folks, I wasn't born a Never Trumper. I became this way because of specific things that Trump did that I decided have no place in how I want my country to be.
 
That's why the whole tactic of labeling people as "Never Trumpers" and then discounting what they have to say, is so laughable to me. This may come as a shock to the Trump defenders, but folks, I wasn't born a Never Trumper. I became this way because of specific things that Trump did that I decided have no place in how I want my country to be.

Exactly. Although I was pretty much born a Never Trumper. Saw through his ******** in the 80's.
 
That's why the whole tactic of labeling people as "Never Trumpers" and then discounting what they have to say, is so laughable to me. This may come as a shock to the Trump defenders, but folks, I wasn't born a Never Trumper. I became this way because of specific things that Trump did that I decided have no place in how I want my country to be.

Nobody over four can really support the boast of being a dysfuntional delusional fascist who considers Trump the only problem in the country, the thing that went wrong with the grande dream of progress. How you get there from actually being able to clearly believe Hillary lies begins with forgetting everything she has done that's on your list, along with her being an open borders ZPG fascist like George Soros and a number of other multibillionaires. Hillary put up with Bill for the sake of her turn.

You believe stuff printed in a poisoned press, stuff that is lies, exaggeration.... whatever. How many of the big headlines about Trumps misdeeds have been dropped after being debunked and proven wrong.

Putting people on ignore means you don't care what the truth is.
 
Still a victory for the rule of law, though. And I think the Supreme Court can and does fast track things from time to time, so who knows what will happen. Even though it's a 5-4 split right now, I have a hard time believing all of the Republican-appointed justices are happy with what Trump is doing to this country.

I hope you’re right. I’m a little more pessimistic. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the conservative justices that owe their positions on the court to trump, giving back to the anointed one. Especially since many of these Federalist Society fellows run in the same circles as Bill Barr. They may actually support Barr’s bizarre views on an imperial presidency and believe that only by protecting trump will they save the country from godless leftism.
 
Nobody over four can really support the boast of being a dysfuntional delusional fascist who considers Trump the only problem in the country, the thing that went wrong with the grande dream of progress.

Set up your phony straw man and knock him down.
 
You believe stuff printed in a poisoned press, stuff that is lies, exaggeration.... whatever. How many of the big headlines about Trumps misdeeds have been dropped after being debunked and proven wrong.

Putting people on ignore means you don't care what the truth is.

I got to the part about lies and exaggerations and couldn’t stop laughing.

lectures about truth from the trump cult are awesome.

Just remember that trump knows more about war than the generals. This is not a lie or an exaggeration.
 
I was a never trumper after the Central Park five. And after the lying birther movement. Could never vote for a man so clearly racist.

But snake oil is a part of American culture.
 
Wow, just wow. If any of you get your news by watching Ticket Carlson, you should know he is routing for totalitarian Russia to hammer the fledgling democracy of Ukraine.
 
I watch CNN sometimes, other stuff. I watched Walter Cronkite and others news anchors years ago, and read almost every newspaper or magazine I could. I used to believe most people were trying to do some objective, fact-based reporting. I think that sorta hit the fan with the Goldwater campaign. I mean, I have seen the dingy nuclear fallout crap drifting across the sky overhead. I did the duck and cover drills. But I've seen enough of playground loudmouths who will say anything without doing any critical self-evaluation. And I've seen enough of outfits with causes and agendas, and gone over all kinds of propaganda productions, I know when someone is actually trying to be factual.

I don't see it today in any of the little tweets Colton likes to paste in here, I don't see it in the NY Times today, or on CNN. It's just obvious.

People who don't live where news is going on, who can't see or hear it for themselves, who are not in the halls where it's happening, can still have some basic clues to objectivity. Look for some kind of discussion of pros as well as cons for any reported "fact". See if you're being told "conclusions" more than "reasons". There are actually a lot of clues to objectivity, if it's there. Look at the choice of words when there can be several words used to describe it. Some rhetoric is really just inflammatory, and appeals to emotions rather than to reasons.

A second clue to objectivity or the "reporting" of facts rather than some biased or extremely driving narrative that pushes a conclusion, is whether various people are being given the same kind of treatment even though they are on different sides of an issue.

We don't have much good reporting going on.

Colton, and others here, though they may be perfectly sincere in grabbing every possible claimed offense they think Trump has done..... are somehow just not even seeing other politicians who have done, or doing what Trump is being charged with.

There is no cult Trump following that I have seen. Nobody suspending reason and cheering for Trump. The reasons always there are that he is just not doing the things Obama or Hillary would be doing. There has been a lot of concern about what Obama did, and Hillary, and Bush, and Bill, and DaddyBush across many years. There have been a lot of elections where the voters turned out in greater numbers asking for some changes in what is going on nationally, and time after time they just didn't get people voted in who would really do what they say.

Trump gets points from a lot of people for trying to do what he promised on the stuff they cared about in voting for him. But there are still a lot who are disappointed because he's not getting enough done.

Pretty clear to me that people are turning away from the biased media, and by millions are now tuning in to some of the more conservative services, including me. People are believing the major media less now than ever before.

Pretty clear to me that independents and middle of the road voters are really not buying the case against Trump. Not even the illegal Mexicans, or recent legal immigrants. Pretty impressive swing, actually.... considering the efforts through the public school teachers, the NPR and PBS sorts of outlets, and all the major news efforts.

Just sayin'......

Just because you have a little band of enthusiasts here who cut and paste everything, and cluck about this and hoot about that, and you're pretty much in some sort of Trump Derangement Psychosis, there is still objective truth outside the narrow arguments for every imagined Trump offense. Colton can read and clip all he wants from his little *** of news, but he can't make it true. None of you can.

The truth is that the evidence is largely running against the whole Resistance project. Wheels falling off the wagon. People scared they're gonna be facing charges for the laws they know they broke.

People like that now are getting out in front trying to run the tables and project onto Trump all they've done. I don't think even the major media can carry their water much further.

Mueller is probably faking dementia and trying to get outta the way, but he broke serious laws. There are others. Comey. Brennan. Obama. Hillary. Biden. What concerns me most is that Trump is a softie who would rather try to unite the country even if he has to take all the flack, just trusting that people will not be deceived in large enough numbers. But he does see the need for this sort of campaign as "The Resistance" by Civil Service employees and government agents and SES officials which impede the elected President from effectively managing government to be brought under regulation and law consistent with the Constitution.

I've been more concerned about Barr and even Durham just superficially treating a few extremely sore spots and leaving the system as it was. But I think they are going to approach the problem as the systemic problem it is, so open opposition to election results is curtailed, systemically.

We will need a revised Civil Service Code, a change in the Union rules. We will need to systematically move personnel on out to pasture before they can become within their little bureaucratic dominions a law unto themselves.

I favor term limits on civil service employment, and the abolishment of the SES system in favor of more unbiased recruitment of management personnel who have no vested long-term protection, security, or interests in staying in the system. Lots of opportunities out there in private employment. We do not need an established managerial class who can come to believe they know better than the American voting citizens.
 
Wow, just wow. If any of you get your news by watching Ticket Carlson, you should know he is routing for totalitarian Russia to hammer the fledgling democracy of Ukraine.


I didn't see where Carlson said that. Between Ukraine and Russia, the issues are not settled, will not be settled. But under Obama, Russia made moves for territory and Obama gave no lethal weapon assistance to Ukraine. Ambassador Yankovich didn't support putting weapons on the border. the idea was to contain Russia with publicity, and bring Russia to negotiate a cease-fire. Ukraine was considered unreliable. George Soros' money was enough to tilt the 2014 election.

To be fair about Russia, the negotiations around the START treaty, where Russia was letting go of the missiles in Ukraine, we settled on assurances that Westerners would not interfere in the Ukraine, that it would not be taken into NATO. Ukraine was supposed to be a buffer state between the East and West, but Russia figured it would be pretty much under their thumb. There is enough anti-Russian sentiment in the Ukraine, from historical events like Stalin's starvation tactics, that were in fact genocidal, it is pretty certain Ukraine will never really be happy to be a Russian satellite. But there are areas where the population in the Ukraine consists largely of Russians. It is clear there needs to be a change in the borders. That will be the only stable resolution there. Yes, Russia went in militarily..... in response to Soro's meddling in the Ukraine election which threw out a pro-Russian leader.

No need to say it was good as it was. No need to argue about arms. The truth is, a plebisite would be the fair resolution of the issue. Voting. Some people might wanna move. Let them. Russia should be given all the bad press it deserves, but newsmen like Carlson should NOT just be partisan. It sounded like that, some. But I think it was more of an effort to just not be partisan, and not in favor of arming the border and increasing the border violence.

Russia has made a serious media play in favor of Zelensky recently, trying to set the stage for a settlement I believe. They literally crowed about the news when it was evident that there was no deal for arms per se from Trump. That Zelensky would not just roll for the USA.

Don't make any mistake about this. The Huntsman line about Russia is wrong. Russia is nationalist. Ukraine is nationalist. There will be a peace made between these two if the West just gets outta the picture. Russia will tolerate some arms going into Ukraine, so long as the Ukraine is not being owned by US.
 
Last edited:
False. There's any number of reasons to put someone on ignore. Not caring what the truth is, would be one of the least likely.


OK. This is a point worth talking about. I have one person on ignore because I failed to see any point is discussing anything with him. It was a style issue, an intellect issue. The comments went too heavily on the argumentative. Not a stupid person, just not someone I really didn't care to spend time on.

Fair enough if anyone puts me on ignore for such reasons. You can still discuss stuff and maybe learn something from the people you do respond to.

On the other hand, the point I was aiming at was that the discussion will actually go nowhere until someone decides it's worthwhile to reconsider some things. I think it's fair enough to imagine that might be because the issue has gone to bed on established commitments or decisions, though I admit that might not be exactly the same thing as not caring what the truth is.

I don't think I will ever really change Gameface, for example. But worth reading what he does. Fun, maybe..... in some weird sense.... like it's a proxy fight with my brother who says the same things.... and hence ups my game.....
 
For all my blasts on the CFR..... just so you know..... I worked for years for a member, and all the speakers coming to town came up to the office across the hall from where I worked. I could often hear what they talked about. Well, more than one such. Now you can get a membership roster.... incomplete because members can decline being listed, get announcements for coming events, and publications of speeches given and suggested reading lists, and apply for membership, subject to review and acceptance. But you promise not to disclose "news" from the meetings, or make attributions to what people said there. That's why the Biden tape, the boast of what he did in the Ukraine, will not appear in any media owned or produced or discussed by CFR members. Someone broke the rules.

I would want to start an organization like that which had a slightly different agenda, and some different speakers on tour..... but open to the public and allowing the Press to come in and interview members.

But I would be somewhat placated if any member in those meetings makes statements about illegal or unethical conduct should either be internally disciplined or expunged from the group, or if the illegalities would by rules be reported to appropriate authorities, and not just covered up and not talked about.
 
Wow, just wow. If any of you get your news by watching Ticket Carlson, you should know he is routing for totalitarian Russia to hammer the fledgling democracy of Ukraine.


literally was about to post this.

Again, serious question, where are we as a country when we “don’t care” that Russia is invading western democracies and testing potential weapons on them that they’ll use on us? The first country that Russia blitzed with disinformation trolls on social media wasn’t us, it was Ukraine.

And why ANYONE would root for Russia is beyond me. Russia is everything a liberal democracy stands up against. If you care about free and fair elections, if you care about Human rights, and if you care about corruption, there’s no way you can root for Russia. But apparently, Tucker finds it more lucrative to spew this nonsense.
 
Last edited:
literally was about to post this.

Again, serious question, where are we as a country when we “don’t care” that Russia is invading western democracies and testing potential weapons on them that they’ll use on us? The first country that Russia blitzed with disinformation trolls on social media wasn’t us, it was Ukraine.

And why ANYONE would root for Russia is beyond me.
To people really not understand the national interest in maintaining a stable Europe? The twentieth century wasn't that long ago ffs
 
I just saw this and my jaw just about hit the floor.

I mean, what the ****?!

Well, I'm not imagining that you care to be realistic here. I mean Biden can say everything's cool with China, right.

Tucker had a pretty effective proponent of the dem position in front of him, where the recent talking point is all about Ukraine's desperate need for advanced arms, anti-tank stuff. But the dems under Obama, and Ambassador Yankovich, declined requested lethal arms assistance to Ukraine, on the theory that Russia could be shamed publicly through media coverage, and would sit down and agree to something.

Tucker did say he was pro-Russian, and that he didn't favor arming the border. The other guy was claiming Trump is going to deny arms to Ukraine, crow a bit, and then go to war with China. That was the crazy man on the stage. Basically, it was a crazed imagination that Trump will totally ruin every possible foreign policy position we have with arbitrary uninformed swaggering stupidity. That should be the statement that rings your alarm bells and brings you to question the statements.

I have heard other republicans discussing the Ukraine sorta saying the same thing as the Obama policy. "We don't want to arm this fight". "Russia will behave better if we don't send in arms". Professing neutrality, or balancing the rhetoric in the discussion, is a level-headed and cool attitude that could build a settlement of the problems. Carlson, was just balancing the crazed loon on the left.

I did my bit above. Read that if you care to.
 
To people really not understand the national interest in maintaining a stable Europe? The twentieth century wasn't that long ago ffs

I think you bring up a really good question. It’s almost as if Fox News viewers have forgotten the lessons of WWI... and WWII... and The Cold War.

I was wondering, has nearly 3 decades of peace and relative calm after the collapse of the USSR, left our country feeling too secure? Have we reached a point where enough people have become so self-absorbed and intellectually lazy that they no longer feel the need to sustain western democracy as a whole? Seriously, do we need a new Extinction level threat to wake us up?

I wonder how many factory workers in Ohio watching Tucker at night and thinking he makes a lot of sense? It’s scary

I for one don’t want a return of genocide caused by nationalism. Or living under constant threat of nuclear war. Yet, it appears that so many are now taking safety and peace for granted.

“Why should I care what happens to Ukraine?”
“I root for Putin?”

Todays segment alone should be cause to fire Tucker.

btw, what’s up with Fox News? They’ve always been awful. But between peddling trump and kennedy’s russian disinformation and now cheerleading Putin, what’s the Fundamental difference Between Fox and RT?
 
Last edited:
Top