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What's JazzFanz's stance on Marriage Equality?

Scat said:
If it's different why would you call it the same thing?
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Yes. They're both different. Yes. They're both cars.
 
AKMVP said:
Why woman is woman and man is man? Lets just call everybody human??? Marriage = man + woman. Union/partnership/whatever = man + man, woman + woman with the same rights as marriage... so simple, yet why so opposed? It is just terminology, really.
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If it is just terminology, why have different terms?
 
Scat said:
Are you married to a person of the opposite sex? If you answered yes then the basis of your marriage is the same as mine regardless of how you and your spouse choose to carry out or participate in your marriage.
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Can you specify why the gender of my spouse is the primary basis of my marriage, as opposed to an incidental feature of the people to whom I am sexually attracted? Are you saying you would have married anyone of the opposite sex, as long as they were the opposite sex, or do you really think your marriage is based on things besides gender?
 
PearlWatson said:
There is no such thing as "separation of church and state" but if there was voting based on religious convictions wouldn't violate that. Sorry.
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From the Supreme Court Decison Everson v. Board of Education:

""The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16."

Voting based on religious conviction is not illegal, creating a law based on religious beliefs is. You cannot have a law that is founded on one's religious beliefs. If I sponsored a referrendum that said everyone had to go church and it passed with 100% of the vote it would still be unconstitutional and therefore uninforcable. If you want to ban gay marriage, the law banning it cannot have anything to do with anyone's religious beliefs so good luck to anyone who wants to try and find a valid secular argument for banning gay marriage. I for one don't think that exists.
 
One Brow said:
In both cases, from what I can tell, the parents in question started out in heterosexual relationships, then came out as lesbians. So, you are just wrong, as usual.
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It ain't hard to understand that they replaced their sperm donors with lesbian lovers because they didn't believe having a father for their children mattered.
 
PearlWatson said:
It ain't hard to understand that they replaced their sperm donors with lesbian lovers because they didn't believe having a father for their children mattered.
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As Stoked will no doubt tell you, the wife leaving you does not stop you from being a father. That applies even if your wife leaves you for a lesbian lover.
 
IlliniJazzFan said:
From the Supreme Court Decison Everson v. Board of Education:

""The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16."

Voting based on religious conviction is not illegal, creating a law based on religious beliefs is. You cannot have a law that is founded on one's religious beliefs. If I sponsored a referrendum that said everyone had to go church and it passed with 100% of the vote it would still be unconstitutional and therefore uninforcable. If you want to ban gay marriage, the law banning it cannot have anything to do with anyone's religious beliefs so good luck to anyone who wants to try and find a valid secular argument for banning gay marriage. I for one don't think that exists.
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No, it ain't. The decision you cited nor the 1st amendment say nothing close to your interpretation. Sorry.
 
One Brow said:
As Stoked will no doubt tell you, the wife leaving you does not stop you from being a father. That applies even if your wife leaves you for a lesbian lover.
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DAMN YOU!!!!!! Now I have to rep you.

Also if the women were not happy in their marriages then they should have ended them for no other reason than that.
 
One Brow said:
As Stoked will no doubt tell you, the wife leaving you does not stop you from being a father. That applies even if your wife leaves you for a lesbian lover.
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I stated the difference between the mothers who were abandoned and widowed to these Lesbians as you asked. The difference is that they didn't think providing a father mattered or they would have stayed.

If you want to talk about the duty of the fathers(if they are still alive), that's a different subject.
 
PearlWatson said:
I stated the difference between the mothers who were abandoned and widowed to these Lesbians as you asked. The difference is that they didn't think providing a father mattered or they would have stayed.

If you want to talk about the duty of the fathers(if they are still alive), that's a different subject.
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That is just asinine. You do not know them or the type of man that "father" was. Is the dad still involved? Is he abusive? Did he tell her he didn't want to be married either?

You are in no position to make such a stupid claim.
 
PearlWatson said:
Yeah, because we all know vows and responsibilities to children are secondary to selfish desires.
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Oh so you want to teach your kids that it is perfectly acceptable to live a lie and be miserable? To hell with that. If that is your view then I pity you.

There is only one acceptable reason to be married in my eyes. Love, nothing else will do.
 
One Brow said:
The subject of discussion was the difference it would makes in the lives of the children.
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The lesbian would interact with other lesbians so the children would only see homosexual interaction, while the women who were abandoned or widowed would have interactions with males.
 
PearlWatson said:
The lesbian would interact with other lesbians so the children would only see homosexual interaction, while the women who were abandoned or widowed would have interactions with males.
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So lesbians do not interact with males? The fathers are denied all rights and visitations by the courts? When did this happen?
 
Stoked said:
Oh so you want to teach your kids that it is perfectly acceptable to live a lie and be miserable? To hell with that. If that is your view then I pity you.

There is only one acceptable reason to be married in my eyes. Love, nothing else will do.
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You sound like a little girl who watches happily ever after princess movies and thinks that initial feeling of attraction is what love is.

Love is a verb, an attitude, or a committment. It ain't a twitterpated feeling that comes over you and makes you happy.
 
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