CHINA vs the NBA.

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is like the Country version of the cancel culture. Kinda terrifying that a tweet or comment can have this much power.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Courageous when the Venn diagram of courage overlaps with revenue.

Also... if we force this miser, racist to sell we can get another mega billionaire in a huge market that will spend all teh monies!

 

[infection]

I'm surprised at some of the responses to this. First off, does Daryl Morey have any idea what he's talking about? Do any of us? Just because you watch CNN doesn't mean you truly grasp what is actually happening over there, or the thousands of years of history in Asia that most of us don't know a thing about. I was in Beijing a few months ago. Most people there just look at Hong Kong as another province of China, with only a few modified rules. How would our Federal Government react if Texas started rioting in order to branch off and become it's own country? Would most of us, or the government, be okay with letting them go?

A lot of people's only response is.........."let them have democracy!" Do people realize that democracy as a form of government has it's own set of problems and issues? I'm not suggesting I want to live under a communist government, but don't act like pure democracy is a perfect solution. Even our founding fathers were wise enough to establish a constitutional republic.

I'm aware China has issues and a history of violating human rights. So does the United States. Their government has brought hundreds of millions out of poverty in the past few decades and by and large the citizens of the country are happy with their government (the exception being protesters in HK). I would imagine they have higher government approval ratings than the US does. I certainly don't want to live there, but at the same time think we need to scale back our criticism and focus on fixing our own government before we tell others how to run theirs.

Just a couple things:

1. I'd believe in a right to secede.
2. While I agree with you that you can't go forcing democracy in places where we're simply imposing our western culture on people who do not value it, the missing piece here is that this is Hong Kong. What they're fighting for is their ability to continue having what they have and what they value.
3. You are right that we all know very little about this. We all know very little about many things, yet our public speaks up (right or wrong) and pat ourselves on the back for doing so. If Morey isn't allowed that same opportunity, it's not really the "free speech" we value, but rather the selective ability to engage in "free speech."

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is what's ugly about politics. Now Silver basically has to choose between two bottles of poison

For sure. I’m guessing Morey is in Silvers **** list forever now... they gonna get one of those random audits every year.

 

[Douchebag K]

That was my point.

I was making the point that your point was thus. K

 

[infection]

Waiting for Nike to come out and make their stand. Even if it means sacrificing everything.

 

[checkbookdoc]

I'm surprised at some of the responses to this. First off, does Daryl Morey have any idea what he's talking about? Do any of us? Just because you watch CNN doesn't mean you truly grasp what is actually happening over there, or the thousands of years of history in Asia that most of us don't know a thing about.

I don't really need much info to know who I support when the topics are free speech, free press, government censorship of information, and due process.
I don't approve of the way some of the protests are being carried out, but that doesn't negate which side of the fight I support.

 

[infection]

 

[checkbookdoc]

Waiting for Nike to come out and make their stand. Even if it means sacrificing everything.

As someone else pointed out, what they believe in as a corporation is making money, and they are willing to sacrifice everything for it.

 

[infection]

As someone else pointed out, what they believe in as a corporation is making money, and they are willing to sacrifice everything for it.

I don't really care what they do. It's just nauseating to sit through all the praise they get for things like this that just generate them more revenue when they DGAF at all about whatever it is, but everyone takes it with open arms as if they're not a part of the club.

It's like going to a hotel and them saying they won't change your sheets or wash your towels unless you request because they care about the environment. No, they're just using everyone's feel goods to make more money, and make you feel better about getting less. This scenario is like that but on massive steroids. And meth.

 

[Hekate]

Hong Kong are exercising their freedom of speech by going on strikes after strikes, protests after protests right at this very moment. And lets not pretend that every country in this world get access to free and open elections. We should all have learnt this in high school. Different government exercise different governmental systems. British didn't let Hong Kong choose their own leader when they were in charge. And should Japanese, UK, or Russia go on protests too since they did not get to elect their own prime ministers?

Censorship also goes both ways. Both sides are just telling their own stories about what is going on in Hong Kong. I'm not saying who is right. It's just politics. So stay out of it.

A high schooler getting shot in the chest is just politics, right?

 

[framer]

It isn't just about the money. There are several fronts of the "justice" army that have sympathies with China as a hedge against American hedgeomony. They view China as greener, more responsive to their people and smarter in policy.

It's crap of course, but it dovetails in with their views about the United States, so they swallow it whole.

 

[aussietin]

I'm pretty sure the people who live there would completely disagree with that assessment. Freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from censorship, free elections, right to a fair trial by one's peers, etc., etc., are all at stake for the Hong Kong residents. (What do you think, @aussietin?)

I think freedom is still generally ok, the biggest problem is lack of accountability. police brutality isn't punished, whereas protestors are getting arrested for wearing face masks now (new law that came out 2 days ago). Also, another big issue is that feeling that you have no forum to voice any issues you have with society/government. the chief executive doesn't even seem to care that the riots are happening, and seems content to just scapegoat the police force as public enemy #1. plus she hasn't done anything to remotely try and decrease the violence, only condemn the people to do it.

the difference between the lack of democracy in British rule and now is that they're trying to make a mockery of democracy. we can 'elect' our legislative council (congress equivalent), but half the seats are voted in by industries, which represent like 1% of the population. we were told we could have democratic elections for the chief executive, but only have nominees selected by China. it would be much better if there were no promise of democracy in the first place, but giving a mockery of it pisses me off.

 

[aussietin]

I stand for non violent protest and peaceful negotiations in Hong Kong. But unfortuantely this is no longer the case. If we truly care about human rights, the last thing we should do is to stir up and escalate the situations. People from both parties are getting hurt over there.

my official stance is that although i support democracy, i can't condone violence.

but on the other hand, there's literally no way for people to voice out their issues and enact change. violence was never the first option, but it certainly feels as though all other avenues have been exhausted. would you suggest people just give up on democracy forever?

 

[aussietin]

if china just comes and just abolishes everything in hong kong in 2047, i cant say much, but right now, theyve agreed to a mini-constitution, and hong kong should have a strong degree of autonomy until 2047.

also why im planning to move away from hong kong. its home, but im not sure itll be livable here past 2047.

 

[Douchebag K]

I'm surprised at some of the responses to this. First off, does Daryl Morey have any idea what he's talking about? Do any of us? Just because you watch CNN doesn't mean you truly grasp what is actually happening over there, or the thousands of years of history in Asia that most of us don't know a thing about. I was in Beijing a few months ago. Most people there just look at Hong Kong as another province of China, with only a few modified rules. How would our Federal Government react if Texas started rioting in order to branch off and become it's own country? Would most of us, or the government, be okay with letting them go?

A lot of people's only response is.........."let them have democracy!" Do people realize that democracy as a form of government has it's own set of problems and issues? I'm not suggesting I want to live under a communist government, but don't act like pure democracy is a perfect solution. Even our founding fathers were wise enough to establish a constitutional republic.

I'm aware China has issues and a history of violating human rights. So does the United States. Their government has brought hundreds of millions out of poverty in the past few decades and by and large the citizens of the country are happy with their government (the exception being protesters in HK). I would imagine they have higher government approval ratings than the US does. I certainly don't want to live there, but at the same time think we need to scale back our criticism and focus on fixing our own government before we tell others how to run theirs.

And we know the citizens of their country are so by and large happy little munchkins coz they’re so free to tell us so or free to express otherwise ????

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Just a couple things:
1. I'd believe in a right to secede.

So do I. I also believe the primary government has a right to try and prevent secession. If 51% of the people in Alaska voted to secede, I would understand the rest of the country resisting it (Natural resources, geographic military importance, etc.).

2. While I agree with you that you can't go forcing democracy in places where we're simply imposing our western culture on people who do not value it, the missing piece here is that this is Hong Kong. What they're fighting for is their ability to continue having what they have and what they value.

Hong Kong was part of a unified China that started in 221 BC. The only interruption was when the British forcefully took Hong Kong in 1841 and the region was ceded in 1842. From the perspective of mainland China, HK was forcefully taken and the only reason they have differing values or culture is due to military force from a Western enemy (at the time).
I'm actually surprised it has taken this long for this type of revolt to happen between HK and the mainland, since HK was returned to Chinese rule from the British. How can you have a "unified" county if factions of the country operate under a different set of laws? I suppose you can understand Taiwan's reluctance to agree to partial Chinese control.

3. You are right that we all know very little about this. We all know very little about many things, yet our public speaks up (right or wrong) and pat ourselves on the back for doing so. If Morey isn't allowed that same opportunity, it's not really the "free speech" we value, but rather the selective ability to engage in "free speech."

I have no problem with Morey's right to say what he wants. I am surprised that he didn't think through what would happen as a result of his comments. To me, it's not a "free speech" issue. He's still subject to a public response or response from his employer. If I make public comments that reflect poorly on my employer or cost them $$, I can be fired. This does not restrict my right to free speech.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

And we know the citizens of their country are so by and large happy little munchkins coz they’re so free to tell us so or free to express otherwise ????

Have you ever been to mainland China? Have you asked anyone from mainland China what they think of the government there? The culture there does not value the exact same freedoms we do. I have been there recently and I can tell you first hand that Chinese people take a lot of pride in their government. Again, hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty there in the last 40 or so years. If you are an adult living in China it is likely you are happy with the direction of government purely based on improvement in quality of life, life expectancy, and the fact that you no longer have to work on a farm to survive. You can appreciate and approve of your government, even if you recognize the many flaws.

The ironic thing is that much of the economic prosperity would never have occurred if it wasn't for Hong Kong's rise. Introducing free markets and free will of the people opens up a world of opportunity.

 

[jom2003]

A high schooler getting shot in the chest is just politics, right?

Yes. If you approach those riot police in a violent way and refuse to back down after being warned repeatedly.

 

[Ellipse]

Keep corporations out of politics, PERIOD

Morey was an idiot to tweet what he did, because it put everyone in the NBA in a difficult spot. It is one thing for a player to take a stand, but it goes to a whole new level for a company rep to get involved in foreign politics. Dumbass should be fired.

I can't see the Hong Kong protests ending well. Obviously the citizens feel it is worth it and, since it's their country and their lives, it is their choice. I wish them the best.