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CHINA vs the NBA.

capitalism is when u prioritize the bottom line above all things.

the nba understands that they have a progressive sports league image in north america, which is why they had to get rid of donald sterling.

in asia, being progressive gets them blacklisted, so they tow the company line.

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There's an unfortunate neo-colonial, imperialist slant in much of the criticism of China-- but at the end of the day this is a fascist nation placing people in concentration camps, and imprisoning political activists for decades. The NBA has embarrassed themselves.
 
jom2003 said:
That's why I highly encourage people to actually visit China, talk to real Chinese people, or do some study on China before taking sides in this ongoing Hong Kong conflict. Politics is a mess. Don't get involved until you are ready to.
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Visited China, talked to Chinese people, easy conclusion that Chinese people when supporting their government are the worst people alive. Hong Kong government is absolute crap too.

Taking the side against the Chinese government in Hong Kong issue is the right side the take
 
aussietin said:
Visited China, talked to Chinese people, easy conclusion that Chinese people when supporting their government are the worst people alive. Hong Kong government is absolute crap too.

Taking the side against the Chinese government in Hong Kong issue is the right side the take
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Fair enough. Go for it.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I think they are low because there are cameras everywhere, punishments are harsh, and there is less poverty/need to commit crime out of desperation.
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Less poverty than what? China still has a really low median income, although granted better than it was 20-30 years ago.
 
colton said:
Less poverty than what? China still has a really low median income, although granted better than it was 20-30 years ago.
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Less than what it was, starving for a huge portion of their country. Pretty much everyone has a roof over there heads and has plenty to eat. More than 850 million people were living in extreme poverty in 1981 in China. That was 88% of their country. It is now less than 1%. That is according to the World Bank a company that USA is the majority share holder of. But by any statistic the countries poverty rates have dropped significantly since about 1990. I dont know that any country has seen such a dramatic difference in the quality of life that China has. Its still very much a developing country.

One thing I like in China is that your home city is responsible for you. If you move to a big city or somewhere and you become homeless they will send you back to where you are from and the city is required to help you get on your feet with food, home, and work. Although they dont really have the drug addiction problems USA does that cause a lot of homelessness or keep people homeless so it can be easier.

They still have work to do but the change is significant and very impressive.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Less than what it was, starving for a huge portion of their country.
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Ok, just wanted the clarification. Their median household income is still something like only 1/6 of the U.S. But yes, definitely better than it used to be.
 
For comparison China went from 88% of their country in extreme poverty to less than 1%. USA during that time has gone from 1.7% to about 4.3% during that same time.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Less than what it was, starving for a huge portion of their country. Pretty much everyone has a roof over there heads and has plenty to eat. More than 850 million people were living in extreme poverty in 1981 in China. That was 88% of their country. It is now less than 1%. That is according to the World Bank a company that USA is the majority share holder of. But by any statistic the countries poverty rates have dropped significantly since about 1990. I dont know that any country has seen such a dramatic difference in the quality of life that China has. Its still very much a developing country.

One thing I like in China is that your home city is responsible for you. If you move to a big city or somewhere and you become homeless they will send you back to where you are from and the city is required to help you get on your feet with food, home, and work. Although they dont really have the drug addiction problems USA does that cause a lot of homelessness or keep people homeless so it can be easier.

They still have work to do but the change is significant and very impressive.
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Man... Are you a professor living in China or something?
 
colton said:
Ok, just wanted the clarification. Their median household income is still something like only 1/6 of the U.S. But yes, definitely better than it used to be.
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That is the sad part. We have a far high median yet a larger percentage living in extreme poverty. For a country as rich as our with an average standard of living it should be an easy feat for us to have less people living in extreme poverty. Yet its getting worse not better here.

Also keep in mind that things are much much much cheaper here. You need far less money for the most part to live well here. The only thing that is similar is housing prices in the big cities like Beijing and Shanghai.

China probably will never be at the same level as USA for median household income. But that is also due to how rural most of china is and the type of country it is. They have been doing things a certain way for a long long time.
 
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jom2003 said:
Yeah, wish there are more people like you here to speak on this issue. Way too many "ban China", "stand for democracy" empty talks...
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Well, thanks. Dont get me wrong there are many problems here in China and things I dont like but there are lots of great things and positives as well. China has such a rich long history that the USA cant even begin to compare to. There is a lot of national pride here in China, just like in the USA.

Another issue with the Hong Kong is simply the whole situation to begin with of the terrible things England did to China in the war. Many people take the whole situation very personal and people who are taking Hong Kongs side are siding with what England did to China as well.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Well, thanks. Dont get me wrong there are many problems here in China and things I dont like but there are lots of great things and positives as well. China has such a rich long history that the USA cant even begin to compare to. There is a lot of national pride here in China, just like in the USA.

Another issue with the Hong Kong is simply the whole situation to begin with of the terrible things England did to China in the war. Many people take the whole situation very personal and people who are taking Hong Kongs side are siding with what England did to China as well.
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Well not only that, British were ruling Hong Kong in a much more oppressive manner. Protesters were actually killed back then. That's why the protesters and rioters in Hong Kong are currently divided amongst themselves, with many of them being angry young students ignorant of what British rules were like back in the days.
 
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
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No need for imagination. It actually happened during the Civil War. Buchanan thought it was unconstitutional to stop the Confederacy from exercising their consitutional power to gain independence. But Lincoln thought otherwise. It was a much more extreme circumstance than the one in Hong Kong actually. Because even if everyone in Hong Kong wants independence(which is no where close from being true), it still won't make up to 1% of the entire Chinese population. And you said it yourself that the majority of people in China are pro-government. So it is really non-negotiable like what that Nets owner said.

But Hong Kong has much more foreign support, unlike Confederacy at the time. That's what makes things tricky. Or else this would have long been resolved. Tons of foreigners and Taiwanese people went there just to help them sustain those protests.
 
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Ron Mexico said:
Imagine USA in a similar situation and imagine how we would react.

Imagine we lost a war that was not a war where we were the ones attacked. They took NYC and kept it as their country. 150 years later its back and a part of the USA but a group of people there are protesting because they dont like certain USA policies and think they are bad (you can pick whatever policy you want depending on your political affiliation). Do you think USA citizens would be happy to have people from other countries that dont really know all the information to be cheering for the protesters? Does that mean the protesters are completely wrong? No, there is just a lot to this.
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I think the challenge here is the fact that nobody — on either side — even existed when these things happened. Why is anyone beholden to some arbitrary point in history? How do we even determine that? Rome used to lay claim to the entire Mediterranean. Should that be restored to them because, well, history? So China believes that these people, their culture, their way of life, etc., is theirs because of a history that predates anyone being alive? For better or worse, this is Hong Kong now. The idea that they should have less say in what happens with their country because of some arbitrary point in history seems fairly archaic.

When we look at a people wanting to preserve their way of life — the only thing they’ve known — and weigh that against “well these people think it’s theirs,” I know which side of that argument is more rational.
 
infection said:
I think the challenge here is the fact that nobody — on either side — even existed when these things happened. Why is anyone beholden to some arbitrary point in history? How do we even determine that? Rome used to lay claim to the entire Mediterranean. Should that be restored to them because, well, history? So China believes that these people, their culture, their way of life, etc., is theirs because of a history that predates anyone being alive? For better or worse, this is Hong Kong now. The idea that they should have less say in what happens with their country because of some arbitrary point in history seems fairly archaic.

When we look at a people wanting to preserve their way of life — the only thing they’ve known — and weigh that against “well these people think it’s theirs,” I know which side of that argument is more rational.
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They didnt exist when it happened but many of the things that have happened since people were alive for. and the issue has been on going since and is very alive in people minds. It is also not that old that people dont relate to it. Its not really a comparison to Rome and now. That is a bad comparison. Is the way of life that different? Are they that separate from mainland China?

I dont think that nor do people in China think that. I am pointing out that there is much more to this than that. Also not everyone in HK is a protester or supports the protesters. I am simply pointing out that there is a lot more here than its being simplified as. I agree people should have a say and have their voice heard. Does the vocal minority deserve more of a voice?

Only about 1 in 5 people in HK want independence after 2047. But that number is higher with the younger teens and 20 year olds. But will that change as they get older and more perspective or is it a trend?
 
Ron Mexico said:
Haha, that made me laugh, partially because it can be true.
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I mean, I'm Canadian, so the whole idea of trying to stop someone seceding by force seems alien to me. We've had two referenda in the past 40 years on whether a particular province would leave Canada or not. They can have another one whenever they'd like, though it has (since the last one) been clarified what kind of question ought to be asked on such a referendum. Hell, 25% of people here in Alberta apparently support separation right now.

I guess I'm just not used to the idea of holding a country together by force. I mean, what's the point? That said, as you point out above, fewer people in Hong Kong support independence than in my home province. I would like to point out that in recent experience, both in Canada and elsewhere, independence referenda(Brexit included) tend to increase support for leaving by 5-10% compared to pre-campaign polling. Simply because it's so much easier to campaign for the smashing of the status quo.
 
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